#16: Navigating Menopause Without Losing Connection

In this heartfelt and deeply practical episode of Menopause Breakthrough, Katina Smith, Host, sits down with Telishia Johnson (TJ), a licensed Marriage & Family Therapist Associate, to explore one of the most overlooked dimensions of menopause: its impact on our closest relationships. From the marital bond to the parent child connection, TJ offers compassionate guidance on how families can navigate hormonal transition together  with more grace, understanding, and closeness.

What We Cover in This Episode

TJ walks us through 10 powerful conversation areas:

• How menopause quietly begins affecting relationships before families even realize what is happening
• The way emotional and physical changes influence how a woman shows up as a partner and parent
• How partners and co-parents can reduce the emotional weight so it does not fall on children
• What helps families maintain connection and trust when menopause creates tension or distance
• Practicing grace and compassion when menopause impacts communication and conflict tolerance
• Holding space for grief and irritability while still honoring your marriage covenant
• Redefining intimacy during menopause — an invitation rather than a loss
• The role of prayer, spiritual practices, and shared rituals in keeping couples emotionally connected
• How faith, family values, and routines help children feel secure during a parent's transition
• Guidance for families who want to move through menopause with resilience and closeness

About Our Guest

Telishia Johnson, known as TJ, is a Marriage & Family Therapist Associate with a passion for helping couples and families navigate life’s most challenging seasons with resilience and connection. Her work centers on healing relationships, strengthening family systems, and honoring the emotional complexity of the human experience.

Telishia Johnson (TJ) Contact Information:

• https://couplerebuildtrust.com/
• https://zencare.co/provider/therapist/telishia-johnson

To learn more about our program visit our website at

https://www.happinessinyoucoach.com/menopause-elite-program/

Also, if you are a woman going through peri-menopause, menopause, or post menopause and would like to be a part of our mailing list to stay updated about programs, resources, and more, send a message to ksmith@happinessinyoucoach.com and type in the subject line, e-mail list.

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Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to menopause Breakthrough, the podcast for professional women who want to reclaim their clarity, energy, and balance while navigating perimenopause, menopause, or postmenopause. I'm your host, Katina Smith, your menopause and wellness coach, and I also am a certified functional nutrition practitioner where I use nutrition and lifestyle to support women in this stage of life. I know firsthand how challenging this season can be physically, mentally, and emotionally, and what it's like to feel stressed and maybe even a little burnt out. Here you'll find education, strategies, and encouragement to help you thrive at work, at home, and in life. So let's dive in. Hello everyone. Welcome back to the show. I'm so glad you decided to join us. Today we are going to be talking about navigating menopause without losing connection. You know, menopause is more than a physical transition. It touches how we feel, how we respond, and how we connect with the people that are closest to us. And many women notice shifts in their patience, desire, as well as communication and emotional closeness. Yet few of us are ever really taught how to navigate these changes without feeling disconnected from ourselves or from our relationships. And I'm finding that more and more women actually have no idea that they are in perimenopause. So they're going through all of these changes with lots of questions and not really understanding what's happening with them physically, mentally, as well as emotionally. So today's conversation is really about awareness, compassion, understanding, and really understanding what's happening beneath the surface. And we're exploring how menopause can influence relationships and what it looks like to stay connected through a season of change rather than drifting apart. So I am so grateful to welcome our guest who brings both clinical insight and relational lenses, a relational lens to this important conversation. Just to share a little bit about TJ Johnson, also known as Talisha Johnson. She is a marriage and family therapist associate and the author of A Couple's Guide to Connection from Roommates to Romance in Just 10 Minutes a Day, helping couples heal broken trust and restore emotional connection through practical, evidence-based relationship tools. She primarily supports high conflict couples with communication, emotional regulation, and betrayal trauma. So, welcome to the show, TJ. I am so excited you made the decision to be a part of this podcast today. So, again, welcome.

SPEAKER_01 3:25

Thank you so much, Katina. Pleasure to be here. I'm really excited for this conversation with you, this important topic, and really grateful for the work that you're doing around this.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

Well, thank you again. So let's go ahead and get started with the questions or the discussion, I should say, today. I want to start out by asking you from your experience as a counselor or therapist, how does menopause often bring, or I should say, how often does menopause begin to affect relationships before families even recognize what is happening?

SPEAKER_01 4:10

Yeah, you know, I think you hit on some of those points in your intro. You teed it up perfectly, Katino, when you talked about um, you know, loss of energy is a big one as we, you know, start to hit into those stages. Um, there's chronic fatigue often. Um, there is a lack of desire sometimes. There's bodily functions or um biology that's changing um that creates some loss of uh libido, libido, I always mispronounce that word. Um yeah, and it and you know, sometimes this influences or affects connection and also the the desire. Um so these things can kind of creep in sometimes suddenly, and then there's there's other things that are happening with regard to bodily changes like lack of sleep. Um, you know, sometimes there's overheating um, you know, that happens in the middle of the night, or other things that create challenges for women to sleep well, and that leads to crankiness during the day and less patience. So you hit on a lot of those things in your intro. I think the key is, you know, sometimes these things just kind of sneak up on us and we're not really aware of why or what is happening. And um, some of the the benefit of some of the great work that you're doing here with the podcast is that we can have these conversations and have awareness of what is, you know, what to expect, even though everyone woman's experience might be slightly different. We can have awareness of what to expect before uh the season hits us and not be so just kind of taken aback.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

Right. Yeah, that's very good. It's it's the physical as well as mental and emotional. Um, but I like how you said that, you know, really this is the time and the space to really begin having these conversations because as I mentioned, a lot of women are off guard, like when this happens, and they just don't really understand, you know, what's going on with them. So yeah, thank you for giving us that insight. Um so how can the emotional and physical changes of menopause influence the way a woman shows up as a partner and as a parent? And I know you touched on this a little bit, um, but if you could just go into a little more detail. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

So, you know, talking, we could just take uh patience as one of the first things, right? You know, when when we're underslept or under-rested, you know, we're less likely to have the same degree of patience that we than we we would ordinarily. And so that's one key thing to be aware of. And when it comes to navigating kids and navigating relationships, you know, we might be snappier. We might tend to uh respond in different ways that are kind of uncharacteristic for how we would normally uh show up in the relationship. So that's one thing to be aware of. We might have less energy overall. And when it comes to extracurricular activities for the kids or or um even navigating more social activities, we may have less energy for that, those kinds of things. Then there is the change in mood, um, which kind of you know can correlate with being snappier. We might have sudden shifts in our mood. And again, not not necessarily attribute uh it to the fact that that we do have changes happening underneath the surface. Uh there's also the concept uh that happens, you know, where women experience a sudden weight gain or a shift in their body composition. And sometimes that can lead to people being unhappy in that situation with that new body weight and just that underlying feeling of being unhappy. You know, that can be a frustration that permeates and bleeds over into other parts of our lives and again, you know, end up with us being less patient with those around about us. So I think these are all things to be aware of in terms of how we might show up differently in this season of life without even just conscious awareness of why.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

Right, right. Yeah, like I definitely can relate to that. I want to just touch on a couple of things that you stated. I like how you use the word that certain things can be uncharacteristic of us, um, you know, and how we're showing up. And even though I know when I was going through this, not even realizing why I didn't have patience, especially with my my daughter, there were moments she was asking a question and I might have snapped. And, you know, I felt myself going back to her, apologizing, you know. You know, I apologize, you know, mommy has a lot going on. I shouldn't have snapped at you that way, you know, and I'd explain that and give her a hug and let her know that, you know, I love you, and you know, I'll I'll work on getting better at that. Um, but I did find myself personally going through that as well, um, and wondering, you know, at the time, because we don't really talk about these things, like, okay, this is not like me. So what's going on? You know, for me, um, I've shared before, I didn't realize that I was in perimenopause until after the um after the fact, like um a couple or a few years later. So um I just didn't know. And many women are going through the same thing. And you also brought up the physical changes that a woman experiences, and you know, she may not be that the size she was, you know, as a teenager. We gain weight naturally as we age anyway, but with menopause can come the belly weight, um, the weight around the hips. And so this can really have an impact on a woman and her, you know, she she can be more, I should say, um, self-conscious about how she looks, you know, and it can affect other things, the mood and how she shows up as well. So I'm glad you brought that up with the um physical changes that a woman can experience.

unknown 10:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

And so with that, you know, also just to mention, I'm glad you circled back around to the body composition changes, because I think also that impacts a woman's desirability or their feeling of being desirable, you know, and that can also impact, you know, the relationship that they have with their partner, because when you feel, when you don't feel good about your own body, you know, sometimes your partner may not even care about that. They may, but they may not, you know, they may be more understanding. I've worked with women sometimes that their partner it's not as a big of a deal to their partner as it is to them. They can't get out of their own head to be able to, you know, pleasure or, you know, please their partner in the same way that they would normally. And so that's a really important point, too, to bring up is that, you know, sometimes just recognizing and separating that like we tend to sometimes project our own unhappiness or our own feelings of undesirability onto our partner or onto others, and just you know, being able to maybe have real conversations about that, right? Also, um, so yeah, I'm glad you circled back around to that. It's important.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

Yeah, yeah. Definitely it's like you said, important to have a conversation about that instead of just assuming that that's how your spouse is viewing you, you know. Um, it's really the opportunity to begin to work through whatever you're going through. So, yeah, thank you for that. So, how can partners or co-parents help reduce the emotional weight of menopause so it does not rest heavily on children?

SPEAKER_01 12:42

Yeah, you know, the example that you just gave us, I thought was beautiful, Katina, when you talked about um recognizing, right, that you had said something or you know, shown up in a way that wasn't in alignment with your values and how you would normally show up with your daughter. And first of all, that takes awareness. And that is one of the first things that we need to do is to attune, um, to attune to our ourselves and to our inner state. And so that awareness is so key. And hopefully we can get to a place that we attune enough in advance so that we can kind of catch more of those moments when we know that we're not at our best. And we can avoid um, you know, having some mishaps like that. But I think what was beautiful about the illustration that you just gave us is that you were able to not only notice it, but actually go back and do some repair on it. And I think that that is is exactly what we want to model is being able to attune to the inner experience. And if you, even if you didn't catch it in the moment, um, to be able to reflect on it, to go back and sort through, you know, what was happening for you, what were you feeling at the moment, why, you know, maybe what did you need in the moment, and to be able to go back and have that repair conversation with children or um even with partners or whoever might be impacted. That's that's really important. And and also to be keenly aware of our thoughts, you know, our thoughts often drive our our emotions, they drive our mood, they drive our behavior. And so being able to attune to that internal dialogue, you know, a lot of the clients that I that I work with, we find that many of us have an inner critic. You know, we have this internal dialogue that is not so nice. It's very judgmental sometimes. And, you know, just raising an awareness of that inner critic. This is one of the concepts I talk about in the book as well, is you know, raising awareness of the inner critic and changing the relationship that we have with the inner critic. We won't get rid of it, but changing that relationship with it so that we can be more kind to each to ourselves, we can practice more compassion, more self-compassion. You know, almost talk to ourselves the way that we would talk to uh any any good friend that we had. Um, that's sometimes kinder than the way we tend to show up for ourselves. So I think, you know, again, attuning to the the thoughts that we have, the emotion that we have, and asking ourselves, you know, what we're feeling and being able to convey that proactively to to kids sometimes, you know, they don't need to know everything, every all of our internal world. There probably are boundaries there that we want to set up that are just healthy. But, you know, helping them depersonalize some of these things, you know, being able to share, you know, like you said, I wasn't in a good space right then, you know, and so I reacted in a way that it, you know, I would rather, if I could take it back and do over, I would do do this differently. Um, but just being able to do that because in the absence of information, we tend to tell ourselves a story, right? And kids are no different. In fact, you know, that's kind of where it begins.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

So right, right. Yeah, I like how you started out with awareness because a lot of people I don't think are really self-aware, period, even you know, before going through this phase in life. Um, and I really think it's a process to get to that place of being more aware of you and what's going on with you. Um, I know with me personally, that's uh something I practice very young, but I figured out how to do um to really get in tune with what I'm feeling, feeling like physically, mentally, and emotionally. And where is this stemming from? Like a lot of times it's from your childhood. It could be from maybe something you experience, past relationships, but being aware of what you're doing and what's going on within yourself, I think is key. And I like how how you brought up the inner critic, um, because we all do that where we are constantly, you know, putting ourselves down or thinking negatively about ourselves. And um that to me goes back to that whole thing of awareness, like, like you said, your thoughts, like what are you really thinking? And how is that showing up in your daily life? You know, so yeah, that was um very, very enlightening. So thank you. So in your work as a counselor or therapist, um, what helps families maintain connection and trust when menopause creates tension or emotional distance? And, you know, we've been talking about lots of things, but um, there's something else you want to sort of add to that. Um, you know, you can go ahead and do that.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

Yeah, I think uh for this, this is one of the things I talk about in the book from the slant of couples and how couples can maintain connection. And I think the concept can be more broadly applied to families as well. And it is, you know, finding ways to uh have rituals of connection, you know, and sometimes in some ways in our modern lifestyles, we've gotten away from a little bit of this. But, you know, there used to be dinner time around around the table. You could count count on everybody coming together at a certain time to eat, and you could count on conversation, enriching dialogue. And in some ways, we're so bogged down with extracurricular activities um and just and work and all the the things of modern life that we've gotten away from some of this, but just approaching this with intentionality. You know, uh intentionality in terms of how do we want to connect. And, you know, sometimes when I'm working with um couples and families, I find it helpful, and even individuals sometimes, I find it helpful to just get centered on values. You know, it's it's important to do that work at different phases of your life because your values can shift over time. So getting centered on what are the values that we espouse as a couple, what are the values that we espouse as a family, how do we want to show up for each other? What does that look like? So not only coming up with a list of maybe 10 values that are important, which could be this collage of you know different people from the family sharing what's important to them about uh life as a family together, and then defining what does that look like in real life? You know, what does it look like to have trust? What does it look like to have connection if those are values that we have? What is what does that look like walking it out in day-to-day life and using that to then create some rituals that you maybe want to implement in your family or in your couplehood? That could be things like having a 60-second morning hug together, having sharing a morning coffee together or an evening walk, uh, maybe sharing an appreciation or words of affirmation with each other at bedtime, even going to bed at the same time. You know, many couples are not doing that anymore, right? Where a lot of couples are sleep divorced where they're in two different beds or two different, you know, uh rooms. So just approaching this with intentionality. And as far as extending this to the family, you know, there might be a game night that you want to implement, or there might be movie nights, the dinner table time, uh, maybe some talent shows or comedy routines, you know, whatever works for you and your family and the stage that of life that they're at. I think if everybody family-wise can come together and have input into the conversation about how we want to create this connection together, and so that everybody's bought in, I think you're more likely to be able to achieve that in a way that um the whole family can participate.

SPEAKER_00 21:30

Right. I like that. Um, you know, being intentional about making changes and really looking at what your values are and thinking about how you're going to move forward um together as a family. Like, what can you do and what does that look like? You know, um, I know, like you said, it can be very difficult in this day and age because we are so distracted with things like social media, working. Um, sometimes we just don't realize that we're really not connecting as a family. And one of the things that I have um implemented in my family, when I feel like we are sort of so distracted, I have family meetings. I'm like, it's time for a family meeting where, you know, we just talk about things like if I see something that we need in terms of connecting um more, you know, with one another, then you know, we sit down and we have that discussion. And I know it can be challenging too, you know, for people when communication is difficult, right? You know, some people are not very good at expressing themselves and communicating. Um, one of the things I did for my daughter, um, you know, she's a different generation. So a lot of times I would ask her questions and, you know, her way of communicating is, you know, different from how I communicate. So sometimes she needs that time to really think about it. So and I think maybe in a case like that, um just letting people know, you know, we'll reconvene or come back to it, but give give that person time to think about it because we all are different. Um, but what are your thoughts on that? Um, ways that people or families can come together, especially when, you know, some people might have challenges with communicating effectively.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

Yeah, I love what you said about the family meeting. I think that's great, you know, being able to call that, or even have it. I've had some some families will have it as a standing agenda, like every week or every month, we're gonna have this family meeting and we're gonna connect over. Sometimes it's it's at the couple level, um, sometimes it's multiple levels. So I love that intentional connection. It's a time that we know is on the calendar, we're gonna preserve it, and it's a it's a great time to get things on the table that maybe haven't been able to be addressed before that. So love that. And as far as it being difficult for people to communicate, um, you definitely, when you hit certain ages or certain developmental milestones, sometimes that can be more challenging for kids, especially. And so I find that it's helpful a couple of things. Sometimes it's helpful for people to draw, uh, to have an art form of some sort, even if they're not artists per se, um, because a lot of people get into their feelings about that when you talk about art, you know, a lot of people have judgments about themselves about that. But I try to encourage people, you know, it's not about the art itself. It's it's about the process, you know, just getting into the process. And if you have a prompt, like, you know, what's on your mind, you know, maybe if it's a broad open prompt like that, just letting somebody draw, draw out, sketch out, um, or maybe like a prompt like, well, how do you see the family right now? You know, and let them sketch that out. And then you could take a look at it and invite them to debrief and explore and explain, you know, what's going on in that drawing or that art form that might be also good for really little kids that aren't able to communicate as vocally as older kids. So those are a couple of ways. And then the other thing that comes to mind, especially for your older kids and teens, um, they have these great card games out now, the combo card games, I should say, that you can get at your favorite retailer. And there will be different topics in there that you can literally have your teenager, you know, pull a topic. And if they don't want to talk about that particular thing, skip it, fine, you know. But that is a really good way. I actually played that game with my my parents when I went to visit not long ago. Um, and it was really good. It was, I what's interesting about it is that it gives us an opportunity sometimes to get to know different facets or get to know people on different layers that maybe ordinarily wouldn't come out. So I think those are two things that I would volunteer that I think would help bridge connection when conversation feels difficult or communication doesn't come as easily.

SPEAKER_00 26:35

Right, right. I like that. I think those are great ideas. Many things I hadn't thought about, especially like with the drawing. Um, but yeah, that that's wonderful. Okay, so uh moving along, um, how can spouses practice grace and compassion toward one another when menopause impacts communication, conflict tolerance, or emotional availability?

SPEAKER_01 27:07

Yeah, that's a great question. And I think for this one, you know, we talked about communication earlier, we mentioned it, and it is really so important. And before communication really comes that emotional attunement to your inner experience and what is it that you actually need? What are you feeling? It's so helpful, right, to ask yourself, get in the practice. What am I feeling right now? And what is it that I need in this moment? Because many times, even when we communicate, we're we're in the habit of communicating a complaint and not necessarily a need. And complaints are not very action-oriented. It's it's hard for, you know, if you just say you always or you never, it's like, well, what do you want me to do with that? Right. You never spend time with me, you're always on the video games. Well, and and then there's some people that say, well, you should know me well enough. You should anticipate my needs. And I don't think that's really realistic, right? So, so you know, it does take more inner work and more vulnerability to be able to say the thing that we really need, as opposed to coming out with a complaint or blaming, which is the you always or you never. So it's, I would say, you know, getting in touch with that emotional and to attunement of what our inner world is, the feeling that we're having, and what is the thing that we need in that moment, and being able to communicate that in a way that your partner can hear or that your family can hear. And when I say that, I mean, you know, when we come at people with the you never or you always, that's going to put them into defensive mode, right? And so you're going to probably get a defensive response back. That's just the nature of this cyclical, you know, cycle of communication. Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So knowing that and and approaching um that conversation from that direct place of what you need is going to be helpful, much more helpful in getting the grace and support that's needed versus the complaint and the blame.

SPEAKER_00 29:24

Right, right. Yeah, I I like how you um talked about, you know, how we tend to use words like you always or you never. Um that's a part I think of becoming more effective at communicating. And also how you talked about um really understanding what you need, you know, versus complaining about a problem because a lot of times there's a need there, um, especially I think with women, um, you know, sometimes men are a little confused when a woman snaps and they're like lost because how they're responding has nothing to do with what's going on in that conversation at that point in time. And usually it's a need that a woman is expressing sometimes, but it's not going to resolve the what's underlying and you know, what's under the surface. So um I like that because I actually asked myself that question when I was going through that season, you know, what is it that I really need right now? I really had to sit down and think about what my needs were, you know, versus all of these emotions that are going on and how I'm feeling in that moment. It's like, what did I need? I needed more support, I needed patience, you know, understanding. Um, so really I think that is very, very critical. So yeah, thank you so much for sharing that. So, how can couples hold space for emotional aspects of menopause, such as irritability or grief while still honoring their marriage covenant? And you touched on this a little bit, but if you can share a little bit more.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

Yeah. So, you know, I think it goes back in a in some ways to that, you know, getting in touch with the need and also practicing some self-care. You know, sometimes that need may not always come from externally, right? Sometimes we need to be able to meet our own needs. And that may mean just freeing up some time for self-care. You know, sometimes we're just so busy with the routines and the rituals of life, and we're doing all these things for other people, and we've neglected or abandoned the self. And so being able to engage in that self-care very intentionally, and that is sometimes very basic. It's at the very basic level of making sure that we're getting enough sleep, making sure that we're eating the proper diet, the proper nutrients that's going to support us in showing up in our best version of ourselves. Sometimes that is making sure, you know, maybe instead of showering, we're gonna take a soap and a nice warm bath. That might be setting aside some time to journal or to meditate or working out, you know, going to the gym, taking a walk. So, you know, just taking some intentional time for self-care is really important. And then as far as I think that will help with the irritability because it doesn't help when you're already having these shifts and changes in your body. And you when you stack on top of that, a lack of self-care, you know, lack of sleep, lack of proper diet, lack of time for self, you know, feeling like you're just running on fumes to to cater to everybody else in the world and not tending to yourself, like that irritability is going to just amp up a whole nother level. So on top of of that, just making sure again that we spend the time for self-care. And then when it comes to the grief part of it, actually thinking about, you know, what do you need when it comes to the grief of the pat the people that you've pat that have passed on that you miss when when you think about that, you know, how do you grieve those losses? You know, I've talked to so many people who lose, they've lost loved ones, both close people and distant people, and they never take time. I mean, they might have gone to the funeral, but then it you know, they might have had some sadness afterward, but there was never any intentionality around grieving, you know, grieving that loss, or thinking about how you want to keep those memories alive, how do you want to honor those memories? How do you want to remember those who've gone on? And that might take the form of different rituals that again you can, you and your family, if it was somebody that you know the family is also in touch with, such as a grandparent or you know, somebody in the family, you know, how do you honor that memory? How do you keep it alive? And that's something at the family system, you know, you can come up with. Maybe that's visiting the gravesite, or maybe that's doing an activity that that person really enjoyed, like camping, um, or keeping something alive and honor, you know, or something that they used to do, uh maybe it's a cause or something like that that they had, keeping that alive. And so just just thinking about that and talking through that as a family or as a couple uh can be really important. And then you also touched on when you talked about honoring the marriage covenant, you know, I don't know if this is what specifically you you had in mind, but you know, what came to mind for me was um, you know, there's expectations when it comes to intimacy. And sometimes those expectations can feel unmet because of mismatched desire all along. And when we get into this particular season, that can feel even more mismatched. And so, but just having some conversation around that dialogue, you know, again, in the absence of information, we tell ourselves a story. So being able to convey to your partner, you know, I'm not feeling in the mood, you know, right now, or or my appetite for that has gone decreased. What else can we do to help, you know, satisfy that need? Um, and what concessions can you make? And, you know, there's um, you know, different things that can be done in that season that will help uh to make sure that, you know, the other partner is getting those needs met without you feeling also like you're just, you know, laying yourself on the altar where you don't necessarily feel congruent with that. So again, it just comes down to having clarity on your needs in that moment and being able to have a conversation that's very open and transparent with your partner um about that and where you are in that season of life. And what do you want? And how can you how can you both navigate to get your needs met?

SPEAKER_00 36:50

Right, right. Wow, that's a lot. Yeah. Um, I I like how you talked about the self-care thing, um, because sometimes we just don't even do what you said, like the basics from making sure we're getting plenty of rest, we're taking care of our bodies, getting the nutrients um that we need, um, and you know, movement, moving our bodies as well. But you also said something important too that really made me think. And you talked about grief, how you meet a lot of people that just don't take the time to grieve. And sometimes too, I think grief could be um, you know, just but I I won't say that it's necessarily grief, but also trauma, I should say. It's more trauma, dealing with trauma, because that can sometimes feel like a grief, like you're grieving something. But um I like how you said that because I feel like, you know, from women I've talked to and women that I've coached over the years, it's like we've normalized being busy and caring for others to the point we don't even recognize ourselves. We don't even understand what our needs are, what we want, what we desire. And so being in a situation like this, you're going through, you know, perimenopause or menopause, and you're having challenges in your relationship, especially like with your spouse, you haven't even taken the time for you, like to care for you to even understand how to connect with him and really express to your spouse, you know, what's going on, and being open and honest about it, and having that desire to work through where you are in that season? Um, so yeah, that you you shared so many um great nuggets there. So, but those were the things that really came to surface when you were talking about that. So, yeah, thank you. So I have another question. In what ways can menopause signal an invitation to couples to redefine intimacy rather than viewing it as something being lost? And you touched on that in the previous question a little bit, but can you just go into that a little bit more?

SPEAKER_01 39:30

Yeah, so I think that you know, we we often have a a picture or an image or an idea in our mind of what these different things look like or what they're supposed to look like, I should say. When it comes to intimacy, it's no different, you know, and and you know, a lot of this comes from our family of origin, you know, our the environment that we grew up in, and how how did we see intimacy modeled in that in that environment or not, you know, and or you know, if you didn't see it modeled in family of origin, what was the social fabric like? You know, what did you see on you know social media and television and with classrooms or with peers? You know, how did you come to be introduced to the idea of intimacy? And so we all come into these relationships with our own ideology around what intimacy should look like. And you know, sometimes it's really helpful to step back from that and suspend judgment around it, you know, suspend what we know and just have an open conversation about what could it look like, you know, in this season, you know, how might that look different. And, you know, like you said, just having that candid dialogue about where each individual is in the relationship at the time and you know what what that means for the relationship and for how intimacy has been in the past doesn't mean that that's how it has to be in the future. How do we stay connected? How do we maintain the intimacy at this new season of life given given what we're experiencing right now, right? So letting go of the judgment around it and be and having some flexibility, you know, that's the other thing. I think that's really important. Flexibility is so important to relationships, you know, and to life, you know, to navigating that. So how do we embrace flexibility, let go of judgment of what it should be, and embrace instead what it could be? It could be an opportunity to make something new and beautiful. We just have to be open to it and we have to be sometimes get creative and be willing to have the conversation.

SPEAKER_00 41:52

Right, right. Yeah, I like how you said um letting go of judgment, because we have in our minds, you know, what intimacy means to us, you know, and a lot of that is taught because sometimes people immediately think sex when you say that word intimacy, but it's so much deeper than that. So um, yeah, that's um very powerful there. Yeah, thanks for sharing that. Uh, the next question that I have is what role can prayer, spiritual practices, or shared rituals play in helping couples stay emotionally connected during seasons or of hormona and identity um transition?

SPEAKER_01 42:43

Yeah, this is such an important question. And one of the chapters in the book, we talk about um, you know, how this could look different for different couples. You know, not not everyone is religious, but for those that are, you know, going to church together, having a shared religion or spiritual practice, they might uh choose to worship together. Or and or they might choose to surround themselves with an other work that is a shared mission that they have as a couple. That might look like they might have spiritual practices that they do together, and that might be separate from a religious practice, you know, where there might be not an organized religion, but maybe they have a spiritual practice together that they enjoy doing. Um, it could look like serving the homeless, so having a shared mission where they go out and volunteer, serve the homeless. Some couples travel on mission trips together, um, where they're, you know, serving in that capacity. Some couples may even run a business together. Whatever it is, it's not really as important what it is. It's more important that it you both have a sense of shared. Purpose out of that that you're sharing it together and you feel both equally connected and inspired. And you know, it's both it's meaningful for both of you, equally meaningful. We what we want to avoid is, you know, maybe one partner has a strong calling to one thing and the other partner doesn't feel as strongly called to that. You know, we want to as much as possible find something that both partners can rally around and feel a sense of passion about. And that can be really, really powerful and really helpful to maintain that sense of connection and um maintain you know the yeah, just connection in the season.

SPEAKER_00 44:52

Right, right. Yeah, I like um how you talked about, you know, coming together and you know, doing those things like going to church together, um, even you know, praying together. Um I, you know, me personally, I find it helpful when like my spouse and I, we will have conversations like about certain aspects of you know the Bible and you know, their interpretation and understanding and what certain things um mean to them. And I really think that connection is important because me personally, I am a Christian, so um, you know, I know what the Bible says about marriage, and you know, my goal is to always make sure that I'm aligning myself with what the word of God says um when it comes to marriage. So even though I think in this season it is challenging, I know personally what I went through, um I don't give it as an excuse to just say and do whatever. I think, like you said, you use the word intentional, being intentional about making the changes that you need to make. And even though I was in a challenging place at many times, um, you know, it was my faith that was the driving force where I could pray and, you know, then go to my spouse. Like, say if I snapped at my spouse or I was feeling a certain way, I could go to go to my spouse and I was able to, you know, connect and really talk about things and what was going on with me. But again, like I said, a lot of women don't even realize that they are in perimenopause. And I think this is a very important thing to note here because sometimes, um, and I did the research and I talked about this on a previous podcast, women are going through all these changes and they don't understand. And a lot of um marriages end in divorce around you know, age 40, 50s, and so forth. And not to say that menopause is the cause of it, but I think it can make a relationship or marriage difficult when you're not aware, like you're going through a change. And when your spouse has no clue like what's going on with you, and why are you snapping at me? And why are you treating me this way? And you don't even know, and sometimes you don't even recognize that. So um, yeah, I really just like what you said about really um coming together and you know, whether it's going to church together or doing some sort of practice together, I really think that's critical, but it really just starts again with I think a woman being intentional about really understanding what's going on and taking the steps, like action, like to really find out. Um, I know in my case, and I'll you know stop here with this point. Um I had to be very intentional because I wasn't getting answers through the traditional um route of going to the doctor and asking questions. It was, I know that there is something wrong. I know that my body is out of balance. I know I'm not myself. I'm behaving in ways and, you know, responding in ways that are not characteristic of me. So it was intentional work, it was prayer, it was journaling to really figure out what's happening. Knowing, you know, and being in my field, I knew I had an imbalance in my body too, and which was, you know, with the hormones and then being under stress. Um, but you have to be intentional, especially for women that are married. Um, and then too, I would say this is my last um point here, you know, with spouses, spouses really understanding how perimenopause and menopause is affecting a woman physically, mentally, and emotionally, and just showing some patience, love, and grace um during this season of life. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:40

Yeah, you made some really, really good points there, um, Katina. And um, you know, it it really is important that there is that compassion and that grace and you know awareness of like what to expect, you know, is always helpful as well. And like you said, it kind of begins with us, you know, for taking the time to to journal, to reflect. You know, one other thing that I introduce with individuals and couples is called a feelings wheel. And it's really helpful for dissecting, you know, what is going on with me, because you know, it's not enough to just say I'm upset. You know, what what specific our emotions carry a certain intelligence about them? Right. And so if you can figure out what flavor of upset are you, right? You know, yeah, where does that fall and what's happening? You know, if it's anger, for example, that usually signifies that a boundary has been crossed. And so how do you champion or leverage that um to see what boundary might that indicate that you need in the future to protect yourself from that boundary being crossed again? Um, yeah, I love what you said there about just kind of trying becoming your own detective. Like I like your own investigator, right?

SPEAKER_00 51:06

Yes, yes. So, so important. I know. So I know you have mentioned your book. Can you give me the title again and also share with the audience um where they can purchase this book?

SPEAKER_01 51:23

Yeah, it's called A Couple's Guide to Connection from Roommates to Romance in Just 10 Minutes a Day. And um, yeah, to tell you, you could it's available on Amazon, it's available on Goodreads. Those are two places that it can be purchased in all formats. Well, except audio, we don't have that yet. But um, the book is really about couples that have found themselves disconnected from each other for whatever reason. And usually that happens very gradual and it's uh almost unnoticeable. You just look up one day and the conversations are about dinner or picking the kids up, or who's gonna take Tommy to soccer, or you know, who's going to be here when the repair man comes. And so we've lost the ability to connect over our inner worlds to share emotions with each other. Emotions sometimes get a bad rap, I find, especially with men in our society. So just being able to reconnect. Um, and emotions are the glue, right? They're the glue that bridges that relationship. And so the book is really about how couples that find themselves maybe in the state of disconnection can find their way back to each other. And we start from the very beginning with family of origin and understanding what role you were in, you know, in your family of origin and how that has influenced who you are today, how you're showing up in your relationship, what role is your partner, how do those dynamics influence and shape each other and your interactions? Sometimes that role is not always super helpful, right? Um to replicate in our adult lives, but without awareness, without like taking a step back to notice that we're just kind of stuck on automatic. And so the book is really about peeling back the layers, understanding family of origin roles, understanding how we show up in today's relationship and what kind of cycles do we get into, you know, with each other when we get into these conflict cycles. There's a piece in there about communication, how we can communicate with each other in a way that our partner can hear us, as well as some education around our nervous system state and noticing where our nervous system is at any given time. Because we need to be able to create emotional safety for both partners to be able to communicate with honesty and transparency. So that's the whole beginning of the first part of the book, and then the last part kind of wraps up with you know, breathe when breaches of trust have happened, helping partners bridge that gap uh back to each other through forgiveness, through rituals of connection, um, through, you know, behaviors that help with consistency so that we learn again to trust each other when we have consistently good experiences.

SPEAKER_00 54:22

Right, right. Yes, I mean it it sounds like such a wonderful book. I actually have started reading it, so I have my my copy. So I love it so far. I'm looking forward to you know, finishing the book. I actually have my um spouse reading it with me, and we're discussing each chapter. So, but to me so far, it just also just seems like a good book for just couples, period, you know. Um, I feel like you could never you can never get enough information about how to have um an effective marriage, you know, with your spouse. So yeah, um it's it's really a good book. So yeah, thank you um for sharing that. So, how can guests actually get in touch with you? Like, what's the best way? If someone wants your services, um, how should they reach out to you?

SPEAKER_01 55:17

Yeah, thank you so much, Katina, again for your support. And um, they can best reach me on couple rebuildtrust.com. That's couple rebuildtrust.com or my phone number is 832 810 8034, and I can be reached via text on that number at any time, or they can call that number as well. And if I'm not actively in a session, then I'm happy to hop on a call.

SPEAKER_00 55:50

Awesome. Well, TJ, thank you so much for being here today. This this has really been, I would say, a great, great conversation. Um, lots of valuable information you have shared. And hopefully, for all of you that are out there listening, there's some things that you can take away and begin to implement in your life. No, you're fine. Thank you, TJ, for being here again. Um, this is this has been a wonderful experience. So um I'm just excited. So thanks. Thanks again. Thank you again for having me.

SPEAKER_01 56:30

It's been a pleasure to spend this time with you, Katina.

SPEAKER_00 56:32

Yes, likewise. Thank you for listening to Menipod's Breakthrough. If this episode resonated with you, don't forget to hit the follow button so you never miss a new conversation. Share it with a friend, colleague, or anyone who could benefit from support during this season of life. You can connect with me, access more resources, get tips, and coaching support, and learn about our menopause program for women by visiting www.happinessinucoach.com dash menopause dash elite dash program forward slash. Remember, you don't have to just survive menopause. You can thrive through it. And you are not alone in this season of life.